So long CVS!
After reading Kathy Steele’s article in the Tampa Tribune, it got me thinking about “the long range plan” of our neighborhood. Our neighborhood has fought very had over the past few decades to erase and correct many, many mistakes made over the decades of decay. (Otherwise know as the ‘80s). We have seen now hard it is to right the wrongs and correct the horrible decisions made by the zoning errors, lack of code and poor judgment. After reading the article, I became a bit turned off by the remark made by the CVS representative. “CVS representatives said they have given all they can without jeopardizing the drugstore’s potential to be profitable. Their typical customer, they said, is a mother with children who wants a parking space at the front door. Access to the drive-through window also is crucial, they said.” I personally am offended at their “we have done all we can do” remarks. You can not convince me that the store would not be utilized because patrons would have to park behind the building. With proper lighting and care, the parking lot would be as safe as any other CVS. How would moving the building affect the buildings profitability? Would you bypass a beautifully built store, with ample lighting to got to 22nd and Hillsborough or Busch and Florida because of the location of the parking lot? While I am extremely grateful for our Seminole Heights Starbucks, if we could have seen the future, would we have built it the same? Try going through their ill conceived parking lot at 7 or 8am! While it is too late to correct the Starbucks mistake, we can take a stand and insist better for CVS! Yes, we do need development to be the catalyst for change, but I would rather have development that is suited for the neighborhood versus a compromised box.
You can read Kathy Steele’s article by clicking here.
Tagged as CVS, Old Seminole Heights, Seminole Heights
Categorized as CVS, uncategorized
Blogger, the difference between CVS and Starbucks is that Starbucks actually tried to move the building closer by was prevented by code (queuing length for the drive-thru) and the location of the metering access points for the old tanks of when it was a gas station (required by EPA), Additionally, many in the neighborhood preferred the store set back because otherwise the outdoor seating would be right on top of Hillsborough with the interstate exit just to the east.
At the time it was determined that the economic and PR advantages for the neighborhood to getting the Starbucks outweighed the the negatives of building placement and drive-thru. I am not sure the same could be said of yet another generic drugstore. Moreover, Starbucks faith in the location was justified by it becoming one of the most profitable stores in the southeast and the most profitable in Tampa. Other companies have seen this and understand that SH can be just as successful for them too.
If CVS goes away (and for the record, I am opposed to their site plan), there will be others interested in one of the prime development locations on what has been identified by the FBZ plan as a primary commercial node in the neighborhood. It seems to me that those who favor the CVS plan are doing so more out of fear than a true desire for that plan. However, once that building is in, we are stuck with it for a long long time AND we have lowered the expectations of both ourselves and Council for what is appropriate despite over two years of community meetings to come up with a vision plan that CVS violates in the most basic ways.
People need to have faith. With the property prices coming down and the plan in place, good things will happen. If we settle for the CVS plan now, how can we expect others to step to the plate later?
Randy Baron
One thing to note, this proposal has already overcome what is often a major hindrance to development in our neighborhood and that is consolidating the parcels into a lot large enough. The current owners have shown a willingness to sell all the required lots to make a project of this scale feasible. I’m assuming these sales are contingent offers, but should the CVS project fall through, any future developer will have already had a lot of the guesswork/legwork done.
are you kidding? look at the blight in the neighborhood. I’m not saying anything is better than what we have now, but what CVS has proposed is better than another abandoned car lot or pay-by-the-hour motel.
And therein lies the problem. This isn’t the either/or situation that CVS wants you to believe it is, sell that bill of goods elsewhere. There are many factors that are aligning that will spur development along in the vision we the neighborhood have promoted. This Vision Plan that is coming before Council is OURS…we developed this as a community…and now so many want to just throw it out the window for what? A big box drug store. The fearmongers beat the drum that this will send the message that we are anti-development if CVS fails to develop, but this same precedent-setting moment will also devalue the vision plan and send the message that we’re so desperate the we’re willing to settle for anything that’s not a car lot or hourly motel.
Look around…the days of car lots and ho-motels are numbered. Waiting lists at Ella’s, a packed patio at the Indy, the full parking lot at the Front Porch. Make no mistake, there is money waiting to be spent in our neighborhood, and the time is upon us to stick to our vision to ensure those dollars go to projects that will be responsible neighbors that respect that vision.
The article does not sight the response of CVS to the question of the St. Pete CVS on 4th St. that it under performs. Stores can under-perform and be “carried” if you will by better performing stores. CVS stated the St. Pete store did not perform well. It is in a much better location for pedestrian traffic and a developed commercial corridor than what we have here in Seminole Heights. CVS compromised with the location of the store with a lot of pressure from the city and neighborhood. In fact they were willing to negotiate further on just about anything but a complete elimination of all store front parking.
Going back to what the St. Pete store has parking on the side so you do have parking right outside the front door. The purist who insist nothing but a “on the corner” location of the building want the company to build for a future and theory that may be proven 20 years in the future expects the company to take this gamble. Meanwhile our neighborhood is living in the here and now not Fantasy Island.
The building would provide an attractive anchor to a busy intersection. We need successful anchors before we can attract further development. This intersection is visible to 275, just as Starbucks was and the success of Starbucks for Hillsborough and 275. It was the success of Starbucks that attracted others (like Sangria’s) to look at Seminole Heights. I live on the east side of 275, the stigma that the area has because of the reputation of Nebraska often scares would be homebuyers away. It is not so different for a corporation. We need folks willing to take a chance on our Nebraska corridor but I don’t think we have the data that says “do what we are demanding and you will thrive”. The success of Ella’s and Bistro are not comparable as they reflect different types of businesses.
So why I can respect Randy’s opinion and Susan long’s reservations. I fundamentally disagree with the mind-set that says hold out for something better. We have to be willing to compromise. The proposal moves our commercial area forward toward our long term goal. It will provide a catalyst for future development. We will get there but not if we insist on it being “our way or no way”, we as a community should have learned from some of our other issues that genuine compromise goes a lot further than stubborn intransigence.
–Rick Fifer
The mommy comment is funny. The hardest part is getting the kids in and out of their car seats, once you’re out of the car it doesn’t matter how far you walk.
If CVS makes a smaller store they will just as profitable. The thing CVS seems be overlooking is that if they irritate us and it appears more don’t want it at this point than do, we’re not going to shop there.
If they make us happy and we percieve them as going above and beyond we will go there and encourage others to do so.
CVS has no other options for a store in this area that’s safe. They need us, we do not need them.
As the article pointed out if they approve the CVS then other developers are going to as for similar concessions. The article is using the compromises for Starbucks against us to try and gain acceptance for the CVS.
What happens when another pharmacy from the westcoast merges with CVS and they decide this store doesn’t fit their future plan and close it. Now we are left with what?
Change is coming- don’t settle for anything less.
Rick,
You know that there was at least one other plan that moved the store closer to the corner while still providing parking in front of the building and maintaining sight lines at the corners. That was the one way drive aisle with angled parking. It also would have created a more urban look for the front, similar to the Davis Islands business district. I made that proposal both on this site many months ago and sent it as a suggestion to the CVS reps. No response. Not even a no thank you. And I am sure that others with more design experience than I have could come up with similar plans that more closely satisfied all interests. The fact is that CVS has always been a bit dismissive of the neighborhood. Their consessions were minor. That is not the kind of corporate presence that is desired in SH, all things being equal. Again, I suggest to you that if CVS was interested (and assuming that the petition is actually denied), there will be others just as interested. And also, please understand the bigger picture of how this petition can affect the new comp plan. There are many outside the neighborhood looking closely at how Council (and OSHNA) handles this petition. It has the potential to have negative impacts that extend well outside of SH.
Randy Baron
CVS’s petition was denied by a vote of 4 – 3.
I’m happy with the Council’s decision…I look forward to working on a better solution for that intersection.
And there will be another neighborhood association to have input – Hampton Terrace Neighborhood Association is now officially a neighborhood association in the eyes of the City of Tampa.
What’s the word on shared geography with OSHNA?
Congratulations HTNA!
Wesley Warren is in charge? There goes the neighborhood.
In the eyes of the city, HTNA represents Hampton Terrace (Hanna to Hillsborough, Nebraska to 15th), not OSHNA.
Looks like the OSHNA board is on a roll. Today they first lost the CVS hearing after failing to initially organize community support and failing to speak on the record at the initial hearing and then waging an ill-advised after the fact attempt to improperly influence City Council members, all the while naive to the impact of how their support for a petition that, if passed, would have had a significant negative impact on the newly passed comp plan, was being perceived by city staff and other neighborhoods. Then, to top off their day, they lose a good chunk of their recognized boundaries.
Do you think at the next general meeting Shawn (or whoever the president is at that time) will include these two achievements in OSHNA’s list of accomplishments?
Ah yes 12, let the personal attacks begin. Pathetic.
Yeah 14, I agree. The stance 13’s post has taken is unnecessary. I personally feel that HTNA’s efforts are not about the neighborhood – it is about personal paybacks at the expense of the neighborhood.
Time will tell, but they did see this through to get where it is today with official recognition. They deserve kudos in bringing people together who shared a common goal. They went to their neighbors and rallied support. OSHNA could have made the same effort, but did not.
So, 15, how is 13’s stance unnecessary? Are you suggesting the board shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions? Whatever the reasons for HTNA’s actions, the board never should have let it get this far. They once again have shown their incompetence in running the association. However accomplished they are outside of OSHNA, and I am sure they probably are, their record over the past two years of running OSHNA has been a train wreck. After the way in which they gained control, I sure as shootin am going to hold them accountable!
So when is HTNA’s first meeting? How do they intend to introduce themselves to the residents within their boundaries?
Way to go Hampton Terrace. I hope you take up this mantle and represent those you claim to, and do it with your neighbors best interests at heart. Best of luck.
CVS would have been better than what is already there. This neighborhood is taking forever and a day to move forward. We make it way too difficult for businesses to move in.
That argument could be made about almost anything…better than what’s already there is no standard to set unless you want to see constant lowball offers for development that continue to use are previous concessions against us. Starbucks concessions are being used to justify CVS’s demands, so then CVS’s incompatibilities and waivers would then be used to support the next vanilla shoebox to come knocking. Let that camel get his nose under the tent and we’ll be trading used car lots for a Dale Mabry/Brandon Blvd streetscape.
Okay, who’s going to be the next Pres of OSHNA? Hmmm, 3 in one year. Isn’t Shawn,s tenure the shortest in OSHNA hitory?
No thanks on the “Nebraska Bread”, I’ll save room for the Cake.
“Oh yes, lets go shopping at the CVS on the corner of Sligh and Nebraska Av.” Is this what people will say? I think not. Yes this will generate a pull to this community? Other businesses will profit? There are a plethora of reasons not to have a CVS at this location and there’s a reason Florida avenue is called Business 41.
I don’t know what this Vision is of ” neighborhood development ” but I can assure you, this is one resident who is vehemently opposed to supporting a corporate run business of that nature in this location. Starbucks is bad enough.
I won’t go in to the condition of traffic here, majorly congested. the roads condition. it’s obvious to those who drive it everyday. It’s in sad shape and the city is doing nothing about it, once in a while they’ll throw some asphalt down. but it’s always a temporary fix. And what is the “neighborhood association doing about it? So yes a great idea to build a corporate run business in this location, left turns going west will cause problems, traffic entering the already congested intersection will cause additional problems, and there are those of you who are concerned with parking? Do you live east of Nebraska? Do you have to travel Sligh? Or are you on the other side of the tracks looking out for those of us on this side of the tracks as a matter of convenience for yourself.
The only benefit would be for sick and elderly to obtain their medications there, and CVS has made it clear their push is for alcohol sales, well there are already enough businesses in this area that sell alcohol, a bar a few doors down from proposed location, a BP across the street, Publix, alpine, Sonoco, etc… Their bottom line is profit, it has nothing to do with you or me. You think they’ll care about community and neighborhood? Drive over to the one on fowler and BBD or 30th, they always leave their dumpster open , the gates for it are open blocking the thru traffic and there’s always garbage lying around.They could care less. You think this will be any different?
I believe those of you in support are not looking at the big picture here. You’ll have a corporate influence in the neighborhood, not just a corporate influence but a Major corporations influence.
Id like to see this neighborhood grow in a positive direction but supporting the corporate dollar with ties to big Pharma isn’t the way to develop the Neighborhood and immediate community.
Google CVS, you’ll see they made a profit of 88.5 Billion in 2008.
And ” CVS does have a history of legal problems, however. It has been accused of prescription errors and quality problems, illegally dumping confidential patient information, breaches of patient confidentiality, and, in 2006, of the bribery of former Rhode Island state senator John Celona (D-RI), who was convicted and plead guilty to mail fraud ”
I’m sure i could find a lot more “dirt” on them if I dig, these aren’t the kind of neighbors I want in my community.
Okay, so the bar two doors down from the proposed location is gone now or so it appears.
26 that was version #7. As of late they are bars that cater to the let’s drink because it Friday and we have our paycheck crowd. Try stopping by on a Tuesday or Wednesday – try the door – can’t get in because it’s locked. It is not a neighborhood serving bar – the last 4 versions haven’t been – they serve the same clientel as the San Carlos on Florida.
Can us HT residents get a refund on our OSHNA dues now?
I read this blog but I normally do not comment. I live near Sligh and the thought of a CVS going in there makes my skin crawl. I thought I was alone, and everyone else wanted this horror; thank God more people are speaking out against this. We will be saddled with this rediculous building and we will REGRET it! How can we stop this???
Sorry this is off subject, but has anyone else noticed the strong smell or chlorine or other chemical in the tap water lately?
#30 the tap water in thas town is some of the worst in the country, especially if it’s going through the old corroded pipes that are in most of the houses and cities lines.
the chlorine and other nasty stuff builds up more at outlets that have less overall flow going through them, like the basin in a bathroom. And yes, I notice it when I turn the water on in my bathroom to brush my teeth.
If you don’t have one, get a good reverse osmosis filter and use that for drinking water.
Every year the CoT sends out a flyer on how good/bad our water is. About 10 yrs. ago they said that they were starting to put something (I forgot what it was and don’t have the flyer) in the water that wouldn’t evaporate out like regular clorine. Where before you could fill a bucket with water and let it sit for a few days to use it in a fish tank, this stuff would still be there to kill fish no matter how long you waited. I went and had an RO filter installed in my folks house after reading that and put one in mine soon thereafter.
Yeah, it is a know fact Businesses do look to make a profit. Unless you are a drug lord or Mafia type laundering money, you want a profit. In fact profit usually means the business can pay its employees a salary. I’m sure #25 you are not so noble as to give up a paycheck to live in your anit-corporate, marxist utopia.
Get real, the corner looks like sh#t. It gets rid of a car lot, cleans up a poorly maintained lot, and helps metropolitan ministries help a greater number of families. CVS would be a vast improvement.
Your definition of vast improvement differs greatly from mine, but all that’s a moot point now isn’t it?
32 Met Ministries can sell that property regardless of a CVS being there or not and use the proceeds for their programs.
Believe it or not, I prefer a car lot to CVS, at least it won’t last long and someday something fabulous would move in that better fits the neighborhood
Corporations don’t equal monsters. This neighborhood needs a good mix of both to redevelop its commercial corridors. We unlike most neighborhoods don’t have our commercial corridors restricted to a few blocks, they are spread out over a miles.
So unless everyone can agree on a “ground zero” to start and build synergy you’re going to have a mix of everything.
It’s unrealistic to think we’re going to have all of these cool independent shops lining Nebraska and Florida Ave from MLK to the River.
FBZ is a great idea but has anyone really taken the time to look at the entire commercial proposed parcels and tried to find a wanted and realistic use for each parcel. Sure you can take one parcel here and there and say look what we can do but let’s look at the big picture.
Not a single person has realistically looked at the overall big picture and what’s practical and realistic.
Everyone’s bitching about the traffic problem on Sligh but if you look at Sligh and apply the FBZ “dream world” principles your traffic is going to increase 10 fold.
Can we please take a moment to sit back and think about the grand picture here? Generate ideas of what businesses we would approve and want? How to redevelop the motels, how to build viable modern development on a lot as shallow as a residential lot?
If we are going to succeed and really redevelop our commercial corridors then we need to decide what areas we want to develop first and expand from there. We need to bring solutions to the table instead of fighting amongst ourselves.
I think we all agree we don’t like the automotive businesses, pawn shops, motels, liquor stores, automotive repair businesses. But what do we want to see in their places and where do we want to start?
32, Juvenile much? Name calling and foul language solve nothing except to divulge you’re obvious negative persona
Your poor diction and name calling aside, if you don’t like the way the corner looks, get your fat lazy rump out there and clean it up.
Furthermore that particular corner isn’t prepared for the possible traffic implications this could/ would bring about.
It’s obvious your shortsightedness is indicative of the problems this area has , is and will face due to decisions of this nature.
If you don’t like the way the corner looks avoid it. or don’t look in that direction when you push your shopping cart by.
Some of us do not have a choice.
Go drink your red wine and cry yourself to sleep.
30. My water too , has a strong aroma of chlorine I noticed it several days ago and just checked, it still smells strong.
as for the city critiquing their own water, fox guarding the hen house scenario comes to mind.
If you get a chance you should watch the Documentary “Flow” although you might not want to drink water afterward.
To those of you complaining about FBZ, you will kill it and we will back with “change of use” rules which are impossible to meet. You will also kill any an all support we have garnered from the city over the last 5+ years. The “after the fact” push to get CVS approved went a long way toward destroying our credibility with the city. Fifer’s “Kill FBZ” has already created problems downtown. If you don’t understand the process then at least let those who do work on the problem OT educate yourself. T
he loudest complainers are those who don’t know what’s going on and have made no attempt to find out.
#39 do you even know what you are talking about or is it just another chance to attack someone you don’t like?
It is time to re-think the implications of FBZ. Gee the OSHNA board is supporting CVS. BGOSH is supporting CVS. The SHF appears split with Christie supporting CVS. The immediate neighbors are in support of CVS.
As some have said about CVS “see ya .” Maybe that applies just as equally to FBZ. It just isn’t good enough so why support it.
#40, BGoSH is split too…
I, for one, was (am) against what CVS had to offer. That isn’t to say I wouldn’t approve an appropriate site plan, if they come back with one.
We all worked very hard on the Comprehensive Plan and on Form Based Zoning, so to back down on the very first request would be a shame and against everything many of us worked to put into place to create better commercial corridors. None of us expected change overnight, it is a one-step-at-a-time process, that will take years.
This would have been a step backward, in my opinion.
Some of my good friends and neighbors and I differ in our opinions on the CVS issue, but we all agree, I’m sure, that whatever happens growth-wise, we need to ask future developers to pitch in (monetarily) to enhance and improve the roads and traffic flows. Our current streets cannot handle the additional traffic these businesses will generate.
Just pretend, for a moment, the CVS as a mcmansion. Then realize that there was no way Council could approve their plan and go against a state mandated Comprehensive Plan. The lawsuits would fly. The 3 votes were politically motivated. Trust me. If CVS wanted to be in that location, they could have made changes. Pure and simple, CVS was bullying the neighborhood.
When you want chocolate cake and the chef serves your key lime pie, do you pay for it? I’m not buying.
So now we are stuck with a used car lot and a quadplex. And some of you think that we should pass on CVS and hold out for something better? In this economy, you are kidding yourselves that something will come along. IMO CVS was a hop, skip, and a jump towards commercial revitalization. To those who oppose it, are you really looking at the big picture or do you just have to defeat something in order to feel good about yourselves. Or is it just an opposition to corporate Amercia? Our neighborhood is not welcoming at all to commercial interests. First we defeated Walgreens, now CVS and what do we have to show for it? On both corners we have blight. Thank you!
Until you can have a meaningful discussion without the antagonistic attitude how exactly do you expect to arrive at the necessary middle ground to see progress? You might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Remember, your opinion is no more valid than any other. I think we all seem to forget that from time to time. What we need is a common vision that works for most of us here. CVS and its supporters did not win enough hearts and minds early enough. If it was such a great project City Hall should have and would have been packed. Just look at Starbucks and Cappys. The fact that it wasn’t itself says that it’s not the vision the community wants. Besides I don’t think the fat lady has yet sung on the soap opera. Stay tuned.
43# Please explain how CVS’ presence is going to encourage other businesses to move into the area? Did it revitalize MLK and North Blvd. if I recall there’s a shopping center that has been under preleasing for more than 2 years now? Did it cause the corner of Busch and Florida to have top notch businesses more in? If I seem to recall the retailers at that intersection are all run down automotive serving businesses.
So please explain to me how CVS would be a catalyst for development in Seminole Heights? What businesses are complimentary to CVS and like to position themselves near CVS?
OSHNA website is reporting Armstrong told to cease work on the CVS project.
OSHNA be wrong. Big surprise there.
Are you saying Armstrong didn’t relay that message or Armstrong is wrong. Support your assertion.
Just saying wait until after tomorrow, then we’ll all know if the CVS is finally dead. There are people out there other than OSHNA working on a compromise.
CVS has not yet killed the project. It is on ‘life support.” It is correct that Armstrong was told to stop spending money on attorneys and site plans.